That strategy may be cathartic, but it will have the opposite of the desired effect. If there's any hope of changing someone's mind, it has to start by respecting their opinion no matter how wrong you think it is. If you start a fight you'll get a fight.
I agree. Trying to punish will just deepen resentment, and they will live in their echo chamber while you live in yours. Then it's just side vs side, with the pundits leading the dialog.
We have to remember that we aren't all working from the same perceptual or moral framework. This is a struggle for me, as I love my parents but our believes have diverged considerably.
I think the challenge right now in the U.S. is that for many, it doesn't feel socially safe to question your own side. In reality, we need to feel free to judge actions individually, and judge leaders as a true accumulation of their actions. If we fear rejection from our party/family/friends for not walking in lock-step with the official party stances, that influences a lot of our thinking. No one wants to feel continually guilty about their own views (especially when there are social consequences for changing them), so we often shove aside conflicting details, make jokes, and signal to others that we're still a part of the tribe.
They didn't say "think differently", they said "promoting fascism".
If you look at J6 attempted self-coup where people were chanting death threats agaisnt the vice president and had a hangman's noose ready and pipe bombs were found and say "that was a peaceful protest", while also looking at the woman who was shot dead through the side window of her car while departing from a group of ICE officers and call that "self defence againsy attempted vehicular manslaughter", you may have a problem.
If your reaction to "Punish them socially" is to claim "That’s the most facist thing I’ve ever heard." of the person who essentially just said "stop talking to these people, stop inviting them to parties and stuff", when your fellow citizens are dying at the hands of federal officers who are being given defacto immunity, you may have a problem.
The current administration already punishes people for thinking differently with a lot worse than not inviting them to dinner; is the kind of regime that creates refugees and asylum seekers out of its own citizens, who flee from it.
The problem is that after years of people crying "facism" for mean tweets, lowering coprorate taxes and eforcing a national border, the term has lost any meaning. Maybe we need a new term?
> The cop who shot Ashley Babbit was given “de facto immunity.”
Video from inside the Capitol building showed her attempting to climb through a broken window outside the House chamber when the officer, who was guarding the entrance from the rioters, fired.
As in, while committing a crime. Not through the *side* window of a car.
> Half the country is outraged that leftists think just because they don’t like immigration law, as it is written and voted for, that it’s okay to obstruct deportations and drive vehicles into innocent ICE officers doing their job.
Read this carefully:
Side. Window.
She (Renne Good) did not, and could not, have been driving the car into the person who shot her through the side window.
Because, and I don't know if this is news to you, cars do not drive sideways.
> If Oklahoma declared itself a sanctuary state from unions and declared it didn’t have to adhere labor law would you agree with their right to do so? If Salt Lake City decided to be a sanctuary for polygamy and underage marriage and started obstructing the FBI when they came in to arrest people would you be cheering?
What about! What about! What about!
The current administration is violating your own constitution. The behaviour of ICE is unlawful within your own rules.
> Imagine the chaos if every city just ignored the laws they don’t like.
I don't need to imagine, it looks like Trump.
> Calling each other facists and nazis is just lazy, inaccurate, and an excuse for elevating oneself over ones political opponents.
There are bronze plaques on the ground in my city dedicated to the victims of fascism. I don't speak for others, but I tell you this myself: Trump has been following the same footsteps as those whose dishonour is memorialised by the names of their victims upon those plaques.
The first shot was through the windshield and the. she turned the wheel and the second two shots were fired through the side window as she was turning away. The officer suffered bruised ribs from the impact of the vehicle.
Your telling of events makes it sound like he walked up to the side of the car and shot her dead for no reason. This is wholly inconsistent with the camera footage and damage to the car.
Please stop trying to inflame with your partial account of events.
Ashley Babbit was shot for breaking a window in a federal building, which is far less of an offense than obstructing an officer and assault with a vehicle.
And Facism starts with civilians who act as enforcers and intimidators, not with the police. Hitler’s brown shirts and Mussolini's black shirts elevated the Facists to power. The SS came afterwords. Antifa is far closer to the brownshirts than any other organization in the US. Power through intimidation and chaos. Facist.
> The first shot was through the windshield and the. she turned the wheel and the second two shots were fired through the side window as she was turning away.
Video clearly shows the wheels were cut before forward motion started.
> The officer suffered bruised ribs from the impact of the vehicle.
This seems to be an attempt to rewrite the laughably false “internal bleeding” anonymous propaganda leak CBS news laundered into something remotely credible; there is literally no reason to believe this true, and clear reasons to dismiss it, including video showing thet except for maybe his hand reaching toward the vehicle as it passed, no part of his body was impacted.
That’s not how physics works. The amount of energy needed to get two tons of vehicle to move from rest is enormous and that energy was transferred to a human body. The force of a two ton vehicle moving even a couple MPH is substantial.
The energy needed to get something up to speed is not really relevant to what happens when the thing hits a person unless the person cannot move.
Consider this thought experiment. Take a two ton car with a flat plate on front, accelerate up to say 2 mph, and hit someone.
Now try the same thing but instead of a two ton car lets use a 20 000 ton freight train.
The train takes way more energy to get up to 2 mph. At the time of collision it has 20 000 times as much kinetic energy as the car and 20 000 times as much kinetic energy.
But for the person who gets hit those collisions will be nearly the same. They get accelerated to 2 mph with pretty much the same acceleration profile in both cases. The car is slightly less than the train because the person (especially if they are American!) might be massive enough to cause a slight but noticeable decrease in the car's speed.
Anyone, the key is that the body gets accelerated over a short time to 2 mph. If the body was a rigid body that would involve a very large acceleration for a very short time.
But humans are squishy. The muscles and soft tissue compress and that spreads the time the body takes to reach 2 mph greatly reducing the acceleration, which greatly reduces the damage. The way you get injured in such low speed collisions is by getting knocked over and injured in the fall, or knocked over and run over by whatever hit you, or by being between the colliding object and some immovable object so you can't be accelerated.
Another way to look at that collision is to replace the train with something really big, such as the whole Earth, and instead of accelerating the Earth into the person we'll accelerate the person into the Earth.
That can be done by holding the person horizontally above a solid metal plate and dropping them. If we drop them from 2.69 inches above the plate they well reach 2 mph at the time of collision. You aren't getting bruised ribs from a 2.69 inch fall horizontally onto a metal plate.
> And Facism starts with civilians who act as enforcers and intimidators, not with the police. Hitler’s brown shirts and Mussolini's black shirts elevated the Facists to power. The SS came afterwords. Antifa is far closer to the brownshirts than any other organization in the US. Power through intimidation and chaos. Facist.
Here's a video of the people you refuse to recognise meet that exact description:
I am more than willing to listen. You seem to be the one who ignores words.
I never claimed the J6 crowd to be non-violent? I was referring specifically to the murder of Ashley Babbit.
The J6 crowd gathered once. They did not systematically intimidate fellow citizens nation wide while hiding behind masks.
I will reiterate Antifa and the coalition of masked and violent left wing protesters resemble hitlers brownshirts far more than the anomalous J6 morons.
> I am more than willing to listen. You seem to be the one who ignores words.
You have, here, changed the subject and disregarded reality and projected what-about on me as rhetoric, and even on this comment are motte-and-bailey-ing:
> I never claimed the J6 crowd to be non-violent?
I started by introducing them as an example of a thing where failing to see that they were violent and dangerous was a sign of having a problem. You reacted explosively. You what-about-ed with Babbit. You deflected, you tried to diminish the riot, you claimed there were no firearms. You have a problem.
I maintain that your own words:
And Facism starts with civilians who act as enforcers and intimidators, not with the police. Hitler’s brown shirts and Mussolini's black shirts elevated the Facists to power.
describe the J6 crowd, who are your civilians acting as enforcers and intimidators.
I could also add:
The SS came afterwords.
Today is 5 years later than J6.
> They did not systematically intimidate fellow citizens nation wide while hiding behind masks.
If you bothered to watch that video, you'd see many of them were behind masks.
If you'd bothered to watch the video of (or indeed still pictures from just before) the, to use your word, "murder", of Reese Good, you'd see she wasn't.
ICE however, do operate nationwide and do frequently wear masks. These days, anyway. They didn't used to feel the need to break their own rules. They didn't used to be the villains, according to not only "the left" but also other law enforcement.
I really should be going to bed rather than wasting the effort to write this down, but I guess the impending risk of the end of the world is weighing heavily on me.
It was only good as a way for the British to get into the north for fur trade, since the French controlled Canada/New France (and the St Lawrence/Great Lakes waterways)
And also intimidation and threats. All of the the regimes collapsed swiftly once Gorbachev declared there will be no Soviet military response, like there was in 1956 and 1968. One wonders what would have happened if Poland in 1981 didn't feel like the Soviets will repeat that; there are some reasons to believe they would not.
If you watch it all the way to the end (or skip towards the end if you like), she does mention this legacy is a result of exaggerated stories not even written down by him, but related second hand by people around him with their own attitudes (and financial inventives). He was probably not an angel, even a bit of a cocky dick maybe sometimes in the way of the times, and perhaps a bit vain, but stories related second hand when he was probably joking around don't necessarily represent the true history of his life.
She has good things to say about him in the end, from the evidence of his actual behaviour, like doing education outreach and loving his wife.
That trivializes it, I think. A ton of what people do related to their jobs is marketing at some level. A lot of people here probably resent marketing and self-promotion (to a certain level) but that's the way the world works. If no one has any idea what you do, either directly or through your manager, guess who is getting the chop if the company cuts back even a little.
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