>Because we don't know its a problem. We have ideas that may or may not be sound. But we push them on the world with a fervor far beyond that which is justified by the facts, going so far as to criminalize non-abusive spanking in some places.

We should operate on our best understanding, no? You're right we don't know it, as we don't know anything. I suppose we should not act like we know it, as you say, and should not punish people too severely for such things. Thats not to say we shouldn't use our best judgement, which is that such parenting styles are perhaps "savage" (i hesitate to use that word in particular, but maybe you get the meaning). If verbal conflict is enough to be incredibly stressful, can you imagine physical conflict? Verbal conflict already gives me immense anxiety.

>These just aren't the types of judgments that a make sound basis for widespread forcible change of parenting styles.

Why not? And then what types of judgements would? THis sounds like a comment just intended to resist change, and the kinds of judgements I imagine you supporting are ones that dont cause change.

I just think widespread change should be instigated by sound science, not by unproven ideas about how things should be or what we think is ideal. There is a lot of information encoded in current practices, we should not wholesale toss out convention without fully understanding the consequences. There is the potential for immense damage if our ideas about how to best raise competent adults is wrong.

>Thats not to say we shouldn't use our best judgement, which is that such parenting styles are perhaps "savage"

My concern is the value of these judgments in getting at the truth of the matter. Judging corporal punishment as harmful because we as a society have decided that violence is savage, is just an invalid deduction. But we've become so accustomed to reasoning-by-emotion that its hard to push back against loud voices that declare corporal punishment no longer acceptable. But the risks are too high to let our emotions overtake the science on the issue.

This topic is very hard. What would be harmful? We have to agree about that first.. somehow it seems putting your child into an awkward position is harmful, and itd be awkward if your child was normalized to corporal punishment.. Thats probably not that severe of a harm to the point that it should prevent you from considering corporal punishment.

Harmful in the sense of raising children who have never had any real boundaries growing up and so don't respect a parent's authority, are impulse-driven, are unable to delay gratification, have no work ethic, etc. These traits are detrimental to academic careers and job prospects.

That isn't to say that all children who aren't spanked grow up into these sorts of adults. But some children inherently have more behavioral issues, or are brought up in bad environments with a lot of negative influences, and they can grow into serious deviant adult behavior if not properly addressed when they're young. Corporal punishment is an effective tool and it needs to be on the table unless proven otherwise.

I didnt know we were still concerned about deviant adult behavior in 2017 lol.. Seems like deviance is fine to me and everyone is free to live a life according to their own wishes and priorities

You misread me. I mean deviant as harmful, not deviant as alternative.