From what I see, the polarization is continuing to grow, and with Trump grabbing 70 million votes even when his gov failed majestically at beating the virus, the next few years is going to ne interesting.
Most people I know are happy and celebrating, but I can't seem to get that worked up. Certainly I'm glad Trump lost, but the 70M votes he got, and the fact that this was a close election... man, this country is screwed long term if we can't figure out a way to find some common ground and listen to each other. Being at each other's throats all the time will only destroy us all in the long run.
I think Trump appeals to some of the middles too. E.g. the "losers" of globalization. They are definitely not (all) radical right.
The thing is, Trump is just a symptom of some disease which the country has been suffering for many years. I'd say it's a mix of a lot of things, e.g. the decline of scientific education + decline of the middle class + a lot of other things.
What do you do then? It's not listening or at least not a conversation if you need to educate someone one. Explain why they're not actually losers how they are in fact benefiting.
I don’t have a good answer, but I do have an idea. The next time you face this situation, instead of jumping to give information that you would need to know in order for you to believe what you are saying, ask the other person instead: “What would need to be true in order for you to believe X?”
While I’ve often found that people can’t handle this question and just disengage, if you do get an answer, then you can actually try to say what they need to hear. They may move the goalposts after getting an answer, but it’s better than wasting time throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.
...has actually been disproven more than it's been proven. Or rather, proven to be caused by things other than discrimination, as "wage gap" is meant to imply.
Why do you feel a fetus is a human life? What does location have to do with it?
A fetus isn't viable until week 20ish. Even then it won't survive outside the mothers body. 1% of abortions happen after week 20.
About 90% of abortions happen before week 13. It's not even a fetus at this point. The body it self might abort still at this point, this is when mis carriages happen.
Why do you feel an unviable collection of cells is a human?
It is human, in the sense that it is descended from humans and is not dog or a dandelion or a caterpillar. It has human genetic code. It is one continuous line from the merge of two human sex cells to full-grown human. There is no jump, somewhere along the way, from not human to human.
It is alive. A plant is alive, so surely so is a fetus.
> A fetus isn't viable until week 20ish.
Whether it is viable doesn't determine whether it is human or alive. A two-year-old outside the womb isn't very viable either. In fact, some 20-year-olds aren't very viable.
Viability is shaky ground upon which to base legal protection. Just think of the handicapped or those with other chronic maladies. Or any of us can become unviable temporarily through some accident or acute illness. Does our right to life disappear?
> Why do you feel an unviable collection of cells is a human
A "collection of cells" does not describe a fetus any better than an adult.
- At about 18 days, there is a heartbeat
- At about 40 days, there is brain activity
- By the end of the first trimester, it has all its organs. It just needs to grow.
That's not what a human is. These things have names, zygotes, embryos, fetus. None of these are living humans yet. They're pre humans. collection of cells without an identity or awareness. Simplest of brain function where they might only respond to stimulus.
The difference between fetus and infants is the first is still attached to its mother. Its continued growth depends on its attachment to mother. Similar to a tumor.
Your link to photos means you are forming your opinion based off emotion and not understanding the difference between cells splitting, and what a independent human is.
At what point do you think the sperm and egg are human? Even the first split after they join is still just two cells.
What proof do you have that says a fetus at 16 weeks is alive? How are you defining alive?
> it has all its organs. It just needs to grow.
This is still dependent on the mother, it is not its own thing at this point.
> None of these are living humans yet. They're pre humans.
Citation needed.
> without an identity or awareness
That is pretty easily disproven scientifically. Not even a biologist who is for legal abortion would say that a baby in the womb is unaware. There was an ultrasound a long time ago where you see the fetus recoil from the abortionist's knife. Of course it's aware. Just because it can't see the outside world yet doesn't mean it's unaware.
As far as identity, well, it has a unique fingerprint, DNA, etc. Are you saying you don't have an identity until there's a birth certificate?
> At what point do you think the sperm and egg are human?
Well, they are human from inception (see above). But they are a separate human being at conception.
> What proof do you have that says a fetus at 16 weeks is alive? How are you defining alive?
Even a single cell is alive. You have drifted from textbook science at this point.
> This is still dependent on the mother
Dependence doesn't disqualify you from being human or alive.
Awareness and consciousness is different then responding to stimulus.
> Even a single cell is alive. You have really drifted from textbook science at this point.
We're not talking about human cells being alive. were talking about the whole organism being considered alive and its own thing.
Talking about whether an organism that can not exist independently of its host, that hasn't experienced life yet can be aborted by that host.
It feels like your being disingenuous arguing semantics like cell life with me. Yes cells are live, no the organism is not an independent thing with its own rights. An nonviable fetus is not a fully grown human, this isn't killing babies.
> Awareness and consciousness is different then responding to stimulus.
This is not some clump of cells that "responds to stimulus" before birth and magically becomes "conscious and aware" after birth. It doesn't even line up with fetal viability.
> We're not talking about human cells being alive. were talking about the whole organism being considered alive and its own thing.
The whole organism is alive and its own thing from conception. This is undisputed among biologists.
How reliable is the science you are referencing? 50 years ago "Science" predicted an ice age. Recently it's Climate Change. 50 years from now Science will predict we're all doomed from something else. I am not against Science, but a lot of things that pass as Science isn't Science at all. In fact, some of what passes as Science seems more like a Religion.
There is only one race, the human race. There are differences between ethnic groups, but we are all created in God's image because we're all descended from Adam. I don't know anyone who seriously thinks there are no differences with gender? Except maybe some gender confused professors at my University, but that aside does anyone who is sane really think they are the same? Man and Woman, while having physical deferences, different roles, and responisbilities, are nonethless equal before God.
I don't know what you mean by Abortion is science, but I do know that it is wrong because it's killing an innocent human being.
Science is iterative, there's a process to it. It's unreasonable to expect to be perfectly right the first time. But that is still a better effort then any one else is trying. There is logic and visible proof of climate change happening and effecting our world.
I explained my poor wording somewhere else in this thread.
Why do you feel an unviable collection of cells is a human life? It has no thought, that is what makes us human. At that point its a collection of cells leaching off the mother
So I'm saying we shouldn't fully trust in the areas of science that are likely to be wrong, especially those affected by finding, bias or groupthink. Climate change is one of those areas. The climate has been changing since the Creation of the world. God has promised that He will give us seasons and the ability to plant and reap for as long as the earth remains. (Genesis 8:22). That doesn't mean the climate won't change, maybe it will be bad for some parts of the world and good for others. But I do know we have God's promise for seasons and He has kept that promise every year for over 4300 years. He's not going to break His promise. I'm also not saying we shouldn't be good stewards of earth. We need to rule over it and take care of it. But we don't need to be worried about this planet becoming uninhabitable because of climate change, man made or natural.
Humananity is not defined by the ability to think. Even before the first thought the human embryo is not just a collection of cells. It's a distinct organism. It is dependent on the mother but those cells are independent in the sense that it directs itself on how to form. If you could remove an embryo from the womb and give it a good environment and nutrients it would form just the same. The unborn baby isn't slowly assembled out of parts to make a whole, the embryo is already functioning, it's a distinct human life. It is already human. If you define humanity by thought would you say a 3 year old is less human than a 10 year because their thoughts are less complex? What about when you're sleeping, are you less human when you're unconscious? Humanity is also not defined by it's viability. Is a wounded soldier who will die without life support all of a sudden less human or less valuable because his life depends on an outside source?
The embryo is a distinct human being that can direct it's own formation. It is separate from the mother's cells. And that is why it is a human life.
Yeah reminds me of the previous 20s and 30s when the great depression brings about the rise of polarized left and right and things only got turned around when WW2 broke out...
frsnkly i think economic populism that doesn't generate wealth for urban corporatists by desiccating the entire center of the country, combined with a cultural outlook that is not openly adversarial to people who don't listen to npr would be pretty unifying.
but instead we keep running referendums on failed obama policies combined with the sociocultural neurosis of overmedicated grad students while trying to pretend all of that is not the whitest shit imaginable.
As a direct neighbor from the opposite side (Czech republic), I think they handled it well so far. They don't have a high rate of death per capita, maintained a level of alertness during this summer, and went to a partial lock down only this Monday. Of course I think that Denmark, Norway and Finland handled it better, but those are tiny countries, which makes it hard to compare with US.
