I bought a Sony OLED a couple years ago. I was able to set it up in “dumb” mode and all the default apps could be manually removed. It acts like a monitor and shows nothing but our Apple TV at powerup.

The home screen’s just a nice static background with a settings app and nothing else. I never see it unless I press the appropriate button, but it’s nice to know there isn’t an onslaught of junk waiting for me if I do.

YMMV but other brands with Google TV may have similar “dumb” capabilities.

This is irrelevant to what OP said which is that it this should be the default. One anecdote of "with effort and technical expertise I returned the appliance to a workable state" doesn't mean things are ok.

edit: Im not trying to be snarky, I think your reply was genuinely trying to be helpful, but its not ok that we're being sold this crap

I agree it should be the default, but this TV was readily placed into dumb mode at first powerup. Set your country & language, select dumb mode ("Basic TV"), skip WiFi and most would be satisfied with the result.

Some effort's needed to clean up the homescreen, but you never need to see it. Hand your grandparents a basic programmable remote without extras like the home button. They should be good to go.

"Well, you have to jump through all these hoops and have a CS degree and de-solder the radio and then power the TV on carefully and then–"

Yes, it is technically possible to de-fang some TVs, but it should not be necessary.

I think in cases of people with Alzheimer’s or other elderly people who can’t really operate things besides play/stop/next dumb screen isn’t going to work. Mostly because you have to hook up something else that will require additional steps to operate.

My father doesn’t have any serious dementia or signs of Alzheimer’s - he is 65 but typing in anything on keyboard is still a major hassle for him. If he could have play/stop/next button it would work for him.

Until you get a mandatory software update.

Through what means? It’s not on the internet, nor was a connection required for setup.

Cars come with cellular radios now. It’s conceivable that other electronics could start to ship that way.

I pretty much make it standard practice to get an apple tv or whatever streaming device for all tvs and not allow internet access to the tvs. You have zero control over the tv, so why subject yourself or others to it instead of getting a $50 to $150 device.

> You have zero control over the tv,

This. This is the problem. TVs with user-hostile firmware are the only options available. Imagine if the only beds available were smart beds that wake you up with advertisements and project ads onto your ceiling while you try to sleep. Honestly it seems like we're almost there

> TVs with user-hostile firmware are the only options available.

There are "business TVs", which are pure displays. Sceptre sells a whole line of dumb TVs. They also sell widescreen computer monitors.

[1] https://www.sceptre.com/

The splash page on that website seems to be primarily AI-generated images. It looks cheap to say the least - such an obvious corner cut it's hard to have confidence in the product.

If we had an effective government, this would have already been solved by a FTC issue of fraudulent sale.

If I sell a widget, but do not transfer full control to the buyer, that should be considered a fraudulent sale that was misclassified from a rental.

Same for a computer. Same for a phone. Or a refrigerator. Or a car.

(Old person comment incoming) I remember when working on hardware from the 70's and earlier, the manufacturers would glue in a full schematic on the back plate. Reparability was absolute. Now, its "how can we screw you over with cryptographic signing of individual hardware"

Reparability and ownership go hand in hand. And it also strongly goes towards sustainability and ecology, with not needing as much resources.

But the "Smart TV" in your comment, pcthrowaway, is that in 5 years, the 'Smart' OS will be either so slow to be unusable, die cause a $.10 part failed, or other really dumb ewaste reason.

Absolutely true. I bought a "dumb" Samsung around 2010. It still works to this day. In 2020, I bought a mid-range TV with Android. The computer in it died after 3 years, and I wasn't able to find a replacement at a reasonable cost. I sat on it for 2 years before finally ewasting it, because the wastefulness made me sick. I guess my main point is that it was the "smart" part that failed. If it was just a display, it would almost certainly still be trucking along.

Because you used to be able to buy TVs that didn't spy on you, and we, as a society, have the power to make that the case again. It should be possible to have a fancy-pants 75-inch OLED TV that does not phone home and spy on you. Full stop.

I think it's pretty clear that voting with your dollar is a lie

Maybe not plenty, but Sceptre works great for me.

https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.htm...

And they cost an arm and a leg. Yes, all TVs. You ought to be able to go to Best Buy or Walmart and buy a TV that doesn't spy on you. That should not be controversial.

Nobody said it was.

At least, not in this subthread.

Can you link me to a "non-smart" TV that can be ordered on the Walmart website? Curious cause I didn't think this was a thing any more, and I wasn't able to find one.

You’re making my point.

Take a half-step beyond the easy-reach (Walmart, BB), and they’re not impossible to find (as you made it seem).

Just…unnecessarily difficult.